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18 pages on TF2

#  Jun 15, 2009 at 11:15 AM
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Dec 19, 2007
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Elandriel 81298
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Looks very good. Gonna read it right now.
#  Jun 15, 2009 at 11:17 AM
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kikinchikin 80063
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Specialty: Engineer
Steam ID: kikin chikin
Clan: don't really play anymore
 
Good read Chro.  I like almost all of this, and the points where I do disagree are mainly issues of preference.  I thought you did a really nice job of showing how an unlock should work.

I do think you might want to change the tone of the writing if you want it to be taken as seriously as you seem to hope.  You are downright insulting at times (yes, I know it's you I'm talking about), but your constructive criticism is powerful without needing the jibes.

PS.  I don't really like the mini sentry idea, but with the deployable wall, I could have a lot of fun in certain situations.  I think it would still suffer from being too easy to counter, though.  But it would be nice to have the choice.  I just wish I could get a lightweight that targeted quicker.  I'd give up so much hp and ammo for that.
#  Jun 15, 2009 at 11:43 AM
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Sep 21, 2007
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Chro 77370
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King Engie
 

I don't plan on responding on every forum so I'll just make a general post here, if other people want answers they can come to our forum.  I'm sorry for any spelling and grammatical errors.  I looked over it 3 times and had a friend go over it as well, i wanted to get it out before any word of the next class update which i have a feeling is coming pretty soon.  A little rushed and some mistakes here and there, my bad.  The audience is meant for everyone including valve.  As for the attitude its written in, i wrote it like a post.  It comes off a bit arrogant and I do take jabs at players, im not going to deny that.  Thats the the problem of saying somethings wrong because of skill.  Will i not be taken as seriously? Maybe... but it needed to be said and remember its players themselves that made this mod, not some guy that had a doctors in game design.

I specifically avoided extended talk about each class.  If i wanted to do an in-depth look at each class, each weapon and their match-up with every other class we would be looking at an incredibly long paper that would look more like the art of war than anything. I do a quick overview at what each class should be able to do and how their unlocks are or should be created to help that.  I said it multiple times in the paper that you shouldn't specially look at the unlocks but what it does to the class, yet people are constantly making that mistake.  Its more of me pointing in the right direction than giving you a road map. 

Lastly, yea i wanted to avoid competitive vs. casual in most of the paper but its still showing to be the main topic.  I avoided most of the topics such as crits, random damage, class limits and map preference because that would require alot more writing and would cause so much uproar no one would look at the rest of it.  I said it in the paper but if competitive play constantly gets hate then i can write something about it but not now.  Honestly, the biggest part of the paper is the size and that alone gets alot of people, including valve, to read it. 

Edit: I missed some questions.  The needle gun would add an extra 2-3hp/sec on top of the current 3hp/sec.  I would have made each unlock elegant if it were possible, I'd love to just say 'bam this is the solution" but thats not going to happen.  @warning for the comment on me praising the huntsman and shunning the FaN.  The fan is simply a downgrade of the scatter to me, its always better to run over someone with 6 shots then kill/wound a guy and then have to reload.  The huntsman can replace the rifle if the team changes its flow.  Does 120 damage uncharged so scouts that take a small blast are dead from a single body hit,  it still headshots but takes a different mindset.  I used it once in a scrim and managed to take out 2 players with the team and then cleaned up 3 more alone when everyone was dead.  It can work in matches, the problem is that snipers aren't ran that often and a team doesn't want to change things up for such a rare occasion of running a sniper and a huntsman.  We shouldn't confuse what can happen with what teams make happen.  Hope i cleared that up a little bit.

#  Jun 15, 2009 at 12:33 PM
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Skippy... 85539
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Specialty: Scout
Steam ID: SkippyTM
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Can you put on a word version of this or something? I haven't got anything that can play pdf and I'm really interested in this
#  Jun 15, 2009 at 12:39 PM
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Doc Brown 82264
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skippy...
Can you put on a word version of this or something? I haven't got anything that can play pdf and I'm really interested in this

Download adobe reader (I think that's what reads it). A lot of text comes in .pdf now, might as well get it. Plus he'd have to upload an entirely new file to do what you're requesting, assuming we could even find RBR and get permission to do so. He pays for the bandwidth here out of his pocket you know.
#  Jun 15, 2009 at 1:47 PM
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Oct 25, 2007
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haplo13 79239
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Steam ID: 3 Snakes
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Brown
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skippy...
Can you put on a word version of this or something? I haven't got anything that can play pdf and I'm really interested in this

Download adobe reader (I think that's what reads it). A lot of text comes in .pdf now, might as well get it. Plus he'd have to upload an entirely new file to do what you're requesting, assuming we could even find RBR and get permission to do so. He pays for the bandwidth here out of his pocket you know.

Screw Adobe...  use Foxit: http://www.foxitsoftware.com/pdf/reader/
#  Jun 15, 2009 at 1:47 PM
Join Date:
Feb 15, 2008
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598
 
Specialty: Spy
Steam ID: wanker921
 
Very nice read, Chro. I'd disagree with some of your new weapon suggestions, but the critique of the current weapons was spot-on. I particularly liked the ideas changing the Sandman, Sandvich, Bonesaw, Needle gun, and absolutely loved the Sentry suggestions.
#  Jun 15, 2009 at 2:46 PM
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Aug 18, 2008
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Specialty: Sniper
Steam ID: The Geniusman
 
Took the time to read it all the way through, twice, and it was worth it. I agree on all fronts, with balance issues and what needs to be fixed. but better ideas for specific unlocks still need to be formulated. Overall, this essay is an excellent take on Team Fortress 2 and it's implementation of the 9-class system. Thorough and in depth, plus inspiring and it raises good points. Good outlook from a competitive player who more than likely knows what he's doing.

Also, it sure didn't seem like 18 pages, went by fast... I guess that makes it good writing.
#  Jun 15, 2009 at 2:52 PM
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Jan 16, 2008
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lilgamefreak 82232
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I'm glad you avoided the whole casual vs. competitive topic and focused on the raw gameplay instead. Made for a great read and would have to agree with most of the paper. Good work.

My only real gripe is the flamethrower. It's a great idea, but the axestinguisher kind of works against it. Since the flamethrower you suggested makes it so that only skilled pyros can effectively make the most out of it, the puff and sting technique needs to follow suit, as both seem equally effective, but the axestinguisher seems to take significantly less skill to use than your revamped flamethrower (albeit a bit more dangerous).
#  Jun 15, 2009 at 3:28 PM
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Jul 25, 2008
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Rius 86904
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Specialty: Medic
Steam ID: coconut_monkey
Clan: {TF2F}
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I read it and thought it was great. It had some very legitimate arguments backed up by facts and figures. It also offered some interesting alternatives (I thought the Engy Wall idea was especially clever).

If you plan on writing any more essays/texts/emails to Valve in the future I would gladly help edit/format them.

I'll see if I can reformat this behemoth with a ToC and pretty spelling/grammar.


EDIT: BTW did anyone here really expect anything different from Steamforums? What have we learned...

Also Chro, do you have a .doc or .txt version of this instead of the PDF, it'll make things a little easier for me to format.

Copyright 2007-2008 All Rights Reserved

Team Fortress 2


2 Guys 1 Kill: {TF2F} FlyingPenguin - (102 kill assists)
Captures Blocked: Nimbli Bimbli - (26 captures blocked)
Dominator: {TF2F} Bitch Nasty - (25 dominations)
Flags Captured: Corporal Clegg - (11 flags captured)
Flags Defended: MechaEdd - (12 flags defended)
Physician Assisted Homicide: {TF2F}SME®BUI©K - (271 medic kill assists)
Points Captured: {TF2F}SME®BUI©K - (30 points captured)
Revenger: Count_Flakula - (10 revenges)
Spy Power: Chro - (19 objects killed as spy)
Ubercharger: {TF2F}SME®BUI©K - (89 ubercharges)
Axe Man: {TF2F} Ninja Dude - (18 kills with fireaxe)
Axtinguished: {TF2F} BOOSH Rizzilio - (81 kills with axtinguisher)
Batter Up!: soup! - (16 kills with bat)
Biggest Prick: Sam - ClutchKill.com - (8 kills with syringegun)
Blood Sucker: {TF2F}SME®BUI©K - (30 kills with blutsauger)
Broke Backburner: {TF2F} FlyingPenguin - (223 kills with backburner)
Can You Dig It?: {TF2F}.TüRb!NE. - (3 kills with shovel)
Doctor's Certificate: Maero - (16 kills with bonesaw)
Drunken Brawler: [???] Deviruchi - (4 kills with bottle)
Epic Defender: {TF2F} Spy - (9 kills with wrench)
Fire Spitter: {TF2F}blistering - (100 kills with flamethrower)
Flare Gunner: {TF2F} FlyingPenguin - (12 kills with flare gun)
Grenade Spammer: GeneralSheep - (47 kills with pipe)
Grey Matter: STar - (168 snipings as sniper)
Hadouken Master: Xandier - (1 kills with pyro taunt)
Hot Potato: {TF2F} BOOSH Rizzilio - (4 kills with rocket deflection)
I <3 Sasha: {TF2F} Bitch Nasty - (181 kills with minigun)
Knife Maniac: {TF2F} Dartagnan - (109 knifings)
Last Resort: [Ba-El] BoC - (26 kills with smg)
Manslayer: [FRGT] Klare - (10 kills with machete)
Master Fister: Maero - (3 kills with fists)
Peashooter Marksman: Corporal Clegg - (48 kills with scout pistol)
Pickle Squad Award: [NH]Pitt - (18 pickles man handled)
Rocket Scientist: [TF2F]Lancer - (217 kills with rocket)
Scatter Shot: Corporal Clegg - (147 kills with scattergun)
Sentrygun Master: Numenor - (142 kills with sentrygun)
Spam Blocker: {TF2F} BOOSH Rizzilio - (1 kills with pipe deflection)
Spy Checker: {TF2F} Fanlaen - (5 kills with pistol)
Sticky Explosion: {TF2F}Album - (105 kills with pipe remote)
Ubersawer: Psycholord - (27 kills with ubersaw)
Stats Refreshed 6/24/2008 5:00:03 AM CST
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