Fixing CTF is TF2

I used to be a big fan of CTF games - in general I still am - but recently I've started to realize that the combination of the Scout's speed plus the Spy's ability to cloak and refresh the intel timer makes CTF in TF2 insanely broken. If you get the flag halfway across the map (in many cases it doesn't even have to get halfway), then your team wins that round and all the enemy can do is slow down the inevitible. I thought of a few ways to save CTF in TF2 that I'm not sure if they were already discussed or not.

It's my opinion that the best way to fix CTF in this game is to shorten the return timer for the flag. If the flag gets dropped, then you have only 5-10 seconds to pick it up again before the flag is returned. That way, if a Scout escapes with the flag and a Sniper gets him when he's at the front of his base, the Sniper can actually save the flag instead of halting it for the Scout to respawn or a Spy to keep inching it over. The only reason it should have a short return timer is so the team can strategically drop the flag to hand it to another person.

Another idea I thought of would be that if your flag escaped from your base and the enemy drops it, if you stand on your flag for a short period of time the flag will return more quickly than the return timer allows. In the same scenario, if a Sniper kills the Scout escaping from a distance, then the Sniper would have to risk himself by running to the flag and standing on it to return it.

I'd like to hear other ideas and hopefully get a dialogue going about how broken CTF is in TF2 in hopes that it will eventually reach VALVe and they do something about it, cause I love CTF matches in other games and feel like there is potential for it in TF2 that hasn't been met. Or maybe someone can mod the game to use some of these features.

EDIT: I fucked up the subject. It's supposed to say Fixing CTF in TF2, not is. God damn it!

How maps are set up as well make CTF insanely broken.

Chaos, Mach4, to be honest I could list about every CTF map...because whereas I like the idea, I still think it's the MAPS that are the main issue.

Let's experiment with this idea and combo that with better maps and we might be good to go.

Best CTF map I ever played was geothermal because it had emphasis on tactics over death matching, FOR ONCE.

I like the timer. I don't care if Scouts and Spies suicide on it. It was implemented for a reason and it definitely wasn't to break CTF.

The developers themselves stated they wanted to give an advantage or encouragement for players going on the offense rather than defense, meaning that even if you dropped the intel it's not completely gone, which envelops towards a more focused effort for either team.

And I'd prefer that over an "all or nothing" style of play, TF2 can be so well turtled it's tough to make caps in the first place.

I don't think Chaos or Mach4 would feel broken if they did some of these mods. Your team would have to move together to take the flag out of the intel room. If there is a stray Scout in the middle and you just send a Scout to pick up the intel while the rest of the team tries to spawn camp, the defending Scout would make the kill and return the flag. It would put emphasis on both the attack and the return of the flag instead of just the attack on the flag which is how I feel CTF is right now.

I don't exactly agree that CTF is broken, but I do share some of the same sentiments about it.

I like the idea of having the intel timer move faster with someone from that team standing on the intel. Another thought is to have the intel timer move faster depending on how many people from that team are standing near it, in the same way that the cart moves forward in Payload maps. More people standing near the intel leaves fewer people to go after the other team's intel.

Actually if you only had 5 seconds until it went back that would force your team to be insanely offensive and attack oriented. They would have to stick together and work together a machine, bull through the defenses, grab the flag, and keep the squad alive the best possible.

You'd be forced to have bigger attack squads to ensure a higher chance of actually bringing it all the way back without it resetting. 5-10 seconds would force teams to hit with huge attack forces, and play really offensively.

Is anyone able to make a mod that would do either of the two ideas? Maybe we could just try playing a few games like this and see if it plays better or worse. I'd be interested in trying it if it were possible.

In my opinion, I think the only change I agree with chuckles on is that if you are standing on or near your flag, it returns quicker.  Other wise I like it just the way it is.  In my opinion, 2fort is one of the best maps in the game, because it is balanced, and fun to play, and ctf is probably the best mode in the game.

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Or it might discourage a team from trying to cap at all, and encourage on turtling the intel.

In competitively play however it's a different story, although it also emphasizes the fact that the other team who can deathmatch better will be leading in caps very quickly and by a wide margin, and belittles the importance of strategies other than "stay together and concentrate your fire".

Here is a suggestion:

Have the reset timer length determined by how long the intel was carried.  So when a soldier takes the intel from the flag room and runs a long ways with it, the reset timer will be long.  Same situation with a scout will be slightly shorter.  When a spy suicides on it, the timer will only be increased a very small amount making suicides less useful.