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My "beef" with Valve/TF2 gameplay

#  Jul 19, 2008 at 10:37 AM
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KMK 86776
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Ok, I am new to registering here but I have been browsing these forums for awhile and reading a lot of posts, and it just goes without saying that there are some things people agree on, and disagree on. Basically because i'm bored and to get others opinions on my viewpoints, take a quick peek at what i think..

A.) Transmission delay. What i absolutely hate in TF2 (even though sometimes it can work out to your advantage) are the transmission delays. I'm on a 16/2 line (16mbits downstream, 2 up...8800GTX vid card, etc. system is fine. i can play COD4 on max settings with no lag - just to give you a perspective) and normally have a 5-20ms ping response time and get 40-60fps on average, but TF2's engine during intense gameplay sucks, to say the least. I can be in a 30+ person server in COD4, have airstrikes, 15 people throwing grenades and shooting - no video lag whatsoever. As soon as there are more than 3-5 people, say, in 2fort, on the bridge, i start getting FPS lag. I know there are workarounds to improve framerate, but Valve dropped the ball on this completely. No other game i have lags that much on this system (video lag.)

My point - transmission delay - an example: You are sniper. You aim.....shoot.....and miss. The other sniper takes his shot, but in the fraction of a second you quickly run behind the wall (2fort battlements) to avoid getting shot. Magically, you are "transported" back to open view, and die. Even though you are practically IN your spawn. This is simply game delay and network delay between my pc, the server, and the other users pc and their connection to the server. It sucks. I hate when I KNOW for a fact i dodged the shot, i'm behind the wall but "lagged" back to open view and killed. Very poor server configuration or coding of the game.

B.) Achievements. This should be for single player gaming ONLY. This is completely unfair to the people who don't want to sit on the computer for HOURS on end, and honestly, the only people who get ALL the achievements are pathetic losers who have nothing better to do than sit on the computer and play for hours to have e-respect. Not only that it also ruins the game for intermittent players, like myself, who come online once or twice a week for an hour or two and just want to have fun for an hour. You have no acheivements, no unlocks, and youre faced against a pyro with insane health and super-strengthed weapons. Remove achievements all together for multiplayer, or make it so they do not affect unlocks what so ever.

C.) Pyro update. I know Valve is issuing multiple class updates, but they should have taken it upon themselves to realize this will greatly unbalance the game if you issue one at a time. I can understand their logic....make the game interesting over a long period of time (IE issue multiple updates over a year, 2 years, etc.) instead of issuing them all at once. But i disagree...again, ALL of us saw a bombardment of achievement servers, pyromaniacs (literally, out of a 20 player server 10 players are pyro) and it gets annoying. Not to mention the backburner, the flare gun, how FAST the pyros move, and how once they corner you, you're screwed unless you're very very very skilled or are a heavy with the minigun already warmed up.

I was a HUGE, HUGE TFC fan. Loved that game, and i was geeked with TF2 when i first saw it was coming out. Enjoyed it until i started experiencing WAY too much video lag (even with a very good PC), tranmission delays, cheaters (yes, there are TONS of TF2 cheaters - whether it be skywalking, glitching, unlimited crits, unlimited health, wallhacking, etc. Don't believe me? Youtube "Team Fortress 2 Cheaters".) and the pyro update only made it worse.

I can't count how many times I've watched (spectated) snipers where, for example on 2fort they are zoomed into say...the lower left battlement where a soldier is walking out, and the INSTANT a sniper walks out on the TOP RIGHT battlement, they automatica
#  Jul 19, 2008 at 10:54 AM
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LOL!rus 79829
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I've got balls of steel.

I always assumed the Transmission delay was because of my shit-necttion. And I think that is what it is, and what it always is, IE my ping is 140-200 I can headshot people, I assume where I headshot them at is not where they really are this probably makes them very sad, not much of a difference though because I can't snipe for crap on TF2F.

The person sniping you is probably the one lagging, or maybe you are, 16/2 doesn't make your connection a god.
#  Jul 19, 2008 at 11:03 AM
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KMK 86776
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Well, for one i work for my cable provider. Tests to my modem from our service visibility portal actually show me @ around 25/3, even though in the billing system i'm 16/2.

Even on a 6/1 speed (which is what most people who have cable internet are on) thats PLENTY for multiplayer gaming. I've seen people on 6/1 connections with routers running 2 or 3 PC's and didnt have latency issues.

More than likely its the person shooting me lagging, correct, but there should be preventative measures put in place to prevent THEIR lag from affecting another player like that (IE when they lag, 'freeze' them so they cant move until their latency issue dies down)
#  Jul 19, 2008 at 11:06 AM
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I agree in regards to the FPS issues, the ball was dropped. This doesn't affect me either (it sure did before I bought a new machine) but I realize the effect it has on other players. It's rubbish and no one can seem to ever find the answer, not even Valve. (They know about it, 1 in 10 threads on steampowered are about it yet they really have never spoke on it, people aren't making these problems up.) The answer should NOT be little "tweaks" or whatever, that's trash. It has actually been proven that certain updates have killed peoples framerates many times over yet Valve sits there with a big ? over their head.
#  Jul 19, 2008 at 11:14 AM
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LOL!rus 79829
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I have consitently 30+ FPS on a computer that isn't the greatest, I rarely have what I would call a terrible FPS. I can tolerate it. Some times, I get to  2 FPS for about 40 seconds and that can be a problem, however once that goes away it usually doesn't come back for a long time.
#  Jul 19, 2008 at 11:22 AM
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TheRileyDuo 79176
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No, I think you'll realize that, after the silliness is out of some people's system, this board is very well maintained, and thus, you're going to have your opinion taken seriously.

Anyways, I an agree with you about the lag system. It can mess up the game. But keep in mind that valve set a default of maximum players at 24 (I'm preety sure this is right). When people break the system, and set up 36 player games, they have to take the consequences that valve doesn't allow that many people for a reason.

I've never had a problem in 6v6 games, so I don't know what you're talking about with 3-5 players on 2fort. I can only vouch for myself.

2ndly, I firmly believe that the achement items are balanced, even the blatsanger, which is very hard to kill someone with compared to the needle gun. You can play the game without the weapons: the unlocks are there to encourage people to play more.

Regarding the backburner, though. Think of how the game worked before the pyro update. Soldiers and demomen reigned supreme. If you were a pyro playing against a skilled soldier, your only option was to wait by a corner, and flame him, while you instantly retreated. The backburner is teaching all those new players that they need to watch their 6 if they know a pyro's around.

Consider this: when I played pyro before, I would find a great place to hide, and would get the jump on someone. However, I could almost never take them down after doing that. That doesn't seem fair. I did everthing correctly, yet I still can't beat another combat player (the combat players are pyro/heavy/soldier/demo)? And I usually died while running away too, so the pyro class rewarded good playing with dying.

The backburner gives him that crit boost to kill someone from behind quickly, and enough health to get out of there effectively. When a backburner pyro charges you, you just have to juggle him out of the fight. Soldiers and demoman can handle him. Heavies need to be careful, and spin their guns ahead of times. Everyone else is screwed. And rightfully so. If I'm a medic, and a pyro lit me on fire, that's a fail. If I'm a scout, and a pyro lit me on fire, I should have to retreat immediatly. That's how it needs to be, because a pyro is a combat class, and scouts, engis, medics, etc. are not.

What we saw before the backburner is that you could light a soldier on fire, and he would just run to a health spawn, or even just take the damage. Now, the pyro can kill an overhealed soldier if he hts him from behind. Now he actually plays like an ambush class.

Of course, the backburner would only be game breaking if the pyro didn't get air compression. Everyone I talk to agrees: the air compression works. It allows pyro to be in plain sight of the other combat classes, and still live. It's great for a variety of reasons. It's the pyro's utility belt. It can stop sentry missles, it can bounce crit rockets back, it can blow stickies of a point, and it can ever blow back the heavy's minigun shots, if only for a short time. The air compressor allows the pyro to survive in the main fight, which gives him the options of new areas he can get to which were too well guarded before.

As for achivement servers, don't go. The servers are there for those players who don't want to wait. It sound like you're too casual of a player, and don't want to wait for your unlocks as well. You might want to look into one of those servers.

And in everygame, since stick fighting, there have been cheaters. Get over it, and find a different game. One of the great things about TF2 is that there are ways to get cheaters. One time, I informed a cheaters team that he was cheating, and they then proceeded to stand in front of his sniper scope, so he couldn't hit anyone.

Get over cheaters, they're never going away, but as long as they're not admins, you can do something about it.
#  Jul 19, 2008 at 11:23 AM
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Huh... I usually only get around 50 ping. I really can't say much about it though.

The new weapons are not supposed to be any better than the old ones, only provide different playstyles. As such they shouldn't  unbalance gameplay when released one at a time, though it seems valve messed up with that a bit. Still, the only new pyro weapon I use is the Axtinguisher.

I do agree that tying weapons to acheivements isn't a good idea though, but having all of them doesn't nessacarily mean that the person is just farming them. It could just mean they have been playing for a long time.

You know, in the aproximatley 100 hours of TF2 I played, I have only seen one cheater. I guess it's the kind of servers you go to.

Also, the rocket launcher, grenade launcher, and minigun all do considerably more dps than the flamethrower at point blank.

EDIT: Whoa! There were only two posts here when I pressed the post button.

#  Jul 19, 2008 at 11:34 AM
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KMK 86776
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I completely understand about "evolving" or "adapting" to new weapons, playstyles, etc. What i'm saying is...why not just alter the pyro to have the rightclick (the burst of gas) instead of adding extra health, backburner, axe...all through achievements? i think the gas burst alone would assist the general pyro class GREATLY (dodge stickies, rockets, propel enemies with medics, etc.)

I understand cheaters never go away, but on the same token there are some games where there are very limited amounts of cheaters....thats how TF2 used to be, in my experience. Now it seems as if they're everywhere...

I still think that Valve could have did A LOT better with this game/class updates, along with listening to consumers about the FPS issues. But, again, big devs like Valve, EA...have bigger issues on their hands - making money. Solving problems means spending money, not making it.
#  Jul 19, 2008 at 11:54 AM
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LOL!rus 79829
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The Axtingusisher and its 100% crit chance is a problem, 75 or 50....
#  Jul 19, 2008 at 12:00 PM
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KMK 86776
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the entire pyro class right now is a huge problem. i have trouble finding a server with less than 2-4 pyros on each team.. (in a 6v6, or 10v10, etc)
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