RE: Pyro Nerf

Author's note: I was going to put this in one of the threads but I feel so strongly about this that I felt my opinion warrented it's own thread, plus it's kinda long. Anyways, this is IMO and I would love to hear with logic where it's flawed. TY, VIVA LA PYRO!

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QFFT.  Now where the fuck is our upgrade? tell me?

Flaregun=completely useless even though I gave it a chance, the shotgun is better in every way. Admit it.

Both Flamethrower and Backburner are even now, in fact the Flamethrower with the AB is now the obvious choice. The crit hitbox is so small that it's more beneficial to just light em on fire and then Axestinguish them now. CUTTING THE HEALTH IN HALF WOULD'VE BEEN FINE AND I DOUBT THEY EVEN TESTED IT OUT. This update makes the BB an alternative, not an upgrade.

They nerfed our damage falloff, ok fine but if they are going to take all my health away bring back the no damage falloff or at least increase it by 25%.

The axestinguisher, ALSO an alternative. Shitty damage when they aren't on fire but crits when you WORK to get the on fire. I'd say that's pretty good trade off making either Axe a viable option. BTW the amount of people that I've hit with the Axestinguisher who were on fire and DIDN'T GET CRITTED is almost the same amount of people I've killed with it. I've take 2 sometimes 3 swings on some players who are on fire without a medic even who didn't get critted, cheated me out of a kill and I ended up dieing.


So once the other classes get their updates my prediction is the Pyro goes back to being an underpowered class. Maybe not underpwoered because I never really considered it to be but our "upgrades" will be obsolete. You can qoute me on this in a year when they finish the damn things.

Side note:

Bultsauger=alternative weapon

Kritzkrieg=alternative weapon

Ubersaw=UPGRADE WITH NO DOWNSIDE, CLEARLY SUPERIOR TO THE BONESAW.

This is the formula they were supposed to follow, 2 alts and an upgrade.

I love Valve I really do and I've always defended them and had faith but this is where I draw the line. They've given in to crybaby whining because we have our updates while the other classes don't. You can't attempt to balance as you go along when you don't even know wtf upgrade your going to design for the next class. That is blatent poor developing. I just don't get it so I'm going to repeat it with capslock on. HOW THE FUCK ARE GOING YOU TRY AND BALANCE OUT A CURRENT UPGRADE WHEN YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU ARE GOING TO COME OUT WITH NEXT?!


For the record, I will give you that 50 health was too much, ok I get it. But you can't go in the complete opposite direction in attempt to balance things, AFTER you take away no damage falloff and AFTER you nerf the Backburner crit hitbox and WHILE not landing crits on burning enemies half the time with the Axestinguisher AND ALSO you give us a poor excuse for a projectile fire gun known as the Flaregun

Soooo, where is our upgrade?

EDIT: Despite the 50 health I was still dieing to skilled players that deserved to be killing me, no matter the class. Snipers=still a bitch to deal with also.

2nd EDIT: I apoligize to anyone in

Maybe I've been hiding under a rock- but I could swear these were alternatives, not upgrades. Yes, the ubersaw is an upgrade, and to an extent the blutslauger is as well, but Valve made an attempt to balance them (but failed). Now the pyro updates are here and have been tweaked, and I consider them all alternatives. The flaregun I've found new love for, and balances average universal use against much more effective long range, specific use. It is not useless. If you're hit by it you instinctivly look for the pyro, distracting you, then you have to retreat for health- all the while the pyro is safe at a distance, having fufilled his role as a chaos causer. The axtinguisher is another alternative, a risk vs. reward option. If you dare risk running up to an enemy on fire, you can get off with an instant kill.

On a side note, you can switch between the two- if opponents are too still, use the flare to get them moving. If it doesn't work, shotty. You're not stuck with one or the other.

The backburner needed to lose the health. It was not an ambush weapon. It was a bumrushing weapon. I never had any problem scoring critical hits, and maybe the hitbox should be widened, but not by much more.  The pyro can move himself into position, flamer burning, trying to get the hitbox- a spy only has one shot at a stab in most cases, and if he fails it more often than not ends badly. The pyro has greater survivability, a bigger weapon, and so should plan accordingly.

+25HP I didn't really want. If he had +25HP, he'd be akin to a faster soldier capable of CQ damage with no self damage, and deadly afterburn. A flanking class shouldn't have the same HP as an up-front fighter like the soldier.

The pyro is now a threat, and I don't feel that any new updates will render him useless. His fire will always burn, and he will always be causing chaos.

My $0.02

P.s. I can't help but laugh at how quickly everyone wanted a nerf for the OP bb- now we have it, we rant about how UP he/she is now. Maybe it's just me...

I dont think the new unlockables were meant to be upgradeables: they were meant to expand upon the class and support different play styles upon the class.

I do however think that AB is blatantly better than BB now, seriously. I can never ever get that piece of junk to crit for me -_-

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numbered for easyness.


1) That is if that stupid Axestinguisher witch I LOVE decides it's going to actually crit like it's supposed to. It can never make up it's mind and often lets me down. 100% crits on burning enemies, not likely. It needs fixing.

2) I don't want my enemie to move, the more they stand still the easier they burn.

3) Like I said, even when I'm directly behind an enemy, many times I fail to find to hit the hitbox. This isn't my fault (and is also a Spy issue) make the hitbox bigger for back crits and I'll be happier

4) I didn't say the Pyro would be useless, I said his updates/upgrades/wutever will most likely be after everything is added.

I rejoice with this patch, as it was needed and well deserved.   What would you prefer?  Valve trying to counter-balance every single one of all the other classes to accommodate these backburner pyros tanking and destroying sentries, survivng what they most certainly shouldn't, just to go on and ravage the entire enemy team? 

There is absolutely NO freaking way that valve should be forced, and we should be forced, to implement new weapons based primarily on 1 bad decision with the +50 hp backburner.

You are saying people who complain about the BB being op are whiners, but I say that it is you who is being a crybaby.  Dont give me this "they nerfed the hit box" bs because they fixed being able to take 1 crit and transfer the string to everone else in range.   It is just like the fixed backstab where it used to transfer the animation from one player to another, or if the player turned around mid swing. 

• Fixed backburner's flame critical hits not being recalculated after collision. This meant that it would check if the target was looking away once and after that the flame could score a critical hit again even if the orientation changed

Sure there are glitches, but deal with it... the hit boxes were not changed, you still land crits, and can effectively roast enemies if you succeed in getting behind them.   You shouldn't rely on 50+ hp +whatever health you get from smart medics who know that the BB is even more OP when the pyro has more hp than a heavy.

Once again let me re-iterate.  It is idiotic to think that valve should cater future class weapon updates to compensate for the flawed pyro update.  It is also very unfair to completeley alter the way other classes are played based on one unbalanced weapon.  Valve stated that they wanted to revolutionize the way pyro is played... well they certainly changed how it was played, but in exchange fucked up other class' games even more.

This is a well deserved fix to a broken weapon.  Don't lie, you have been on a rampage and are sad that it now must all come to a just and rightful end.

BROKE BACK BURNER IS NO MORE!! HALLELUJAH!

RP1 (Razor Point 1)- I never had that problem, but if it's true, then yes, it needs fixing. I love delivering axtinguisher kills, and can imagine the frustration of a failed one, much like a failed backstab.

RP2- I guess that's true- either way, I still feel the flaregun is a viable alternative if you can perfect your aim.

RP3- Much like the axtinguisher; if you fail to get them whilst directly behind, it needs a fix. It shouldn't be spy backstab wide, as the backburner is constantly damaging the opponent, whilst the knife doesn't, and as such needs more leeway.

RP4- My apologies for misinterpreting you. I don't think he'll be underpowered though, so long as Valve plans ahead and balances everythign out accordingly. I've got my fingers crossed!

I agree that Valve went a bit to far with their update, but in all honesty, we've been asking for this for a long ass time (AKA day the update came out)  So I think that Valve's just teaching us a lesson and is going to wait and see how many people use the backburner once it loses the health. 

I've always stuck with the normal flamer because of the compression blast, and I thought the health was a good alternative, HOWEVER, Now that the BB has lost it's primary advantage, I see so many people going back to the Flamer that we'll soon have a bit of health back for the BB. 

Another alternative Valve should have looked to to balance this was to simply lessen the BB's ammo clip to 125.  With less ammo people aren't going to rush as much, or if they do, they wont survive as long while they're rushing.

My $00.03

I'm sorry but the Blut is without a doubt an upgrade. A 5 percent crit rate is HARDLY a trade off against gaining 3 health per hit.

The regular flamer just isn't all that great IMO. Good soldiers will just shoot rockets at your feet, making the thing useless, and besides, not everyone fires their rockets/nades in a predictable timing.

I find the Kritskrieg in a serious need of a buff. No one uses it. I see it occasionally, and generally it isn't very effective. With mass sentry spam being the tactic with a 100 percent success rate, regular ubers are 10 times more useful than crit ubers.

The hitbox in the back is not only a Pyro issue, it extends to the Spy as well not recognizing the back of an enemy. That is what I'm talking about. I agree with the initial hitbox fix that they messed up where one player can be looking at you and still get back critted.

I think I offered fair fixes and balances and maybe if the Flaregun was better and the Axestinguisher worked more than 50% of the time I would be a little more ok with this update.

I never said (in seriousness) that the backburner was prefectly balanced but I think this is too far in the other direction BECAUSE of the whinning. It's like they just catered to the whinners and didn't try to come up with an intelligent fix. This is a wrong way to develop games and balance and always fails as proven in other games.


I never RELIED on the 50 health, I used it to my advantage but saying I relied on it dismisses anything good I did with the Pyro pre update and I don't think that's a fair statement. Yes it was a major factor in taking down sentries but there were certainly smarter engis that shut me down and ADAPTED to me having more health by ACTUALLY THINKING and putting sentries in non traditional but still effective places.

Yeah I've been owning pretty hard with the BB and I'm prefectly ok with that ending because like I said I know it wasn't balanced but this is too much.