So which is the better map?

i love stage 3 =/
whats wrong with it?

one time on dustbowl, playing defense on stage one, i was hanging back by the point, and fired a pipe at the gates JUST as they opened.  it was a crit, and it instantly killed 3 people.   including a medic with uber. i taunted. 

really they're both poor maps.  but dustbowl can be fun on occasion.

Dustbowl at least requires some frakin' thought once in a while.

2fort is literally the lowest common denominator of TF2.

Of course, this is like asking "which is better, getting hit in the nuts by a sledgehammer or by a pistol?"

Neither experience is exactly worth the time.

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I disagree about 2fort.  I don't like the map anymore, but there are far worse things than a map that turns into DM because it is too easy to defend and stalemate.  And 2fort, like Dustbowl, requires a team to actually work together to win.  A group of individual players pulling in different directions will result in a poor result, which I feel should happen with a map.  I sometimes feel like payload as a game mode only exists because it only takes a portion of a team to achieve success.  (Please remember, I'm not a fan of 2fort).

And achievement maps are by far the lowest common denominator.

Bah, 2Fort requires a Scout with a pulse and a working sense of direction, and not much else.

One decent engy on the other team would say otherwise.

2fort can be fun if you're playing in small numbers with one engie max.  Dustbowl can as well, although as everyone said the last stage really is just a spam fest. I think what makes both of these maps better is less people. But, I think I prefer dustbowl just because it..isn't 2fort.

In pubs, I've had a lot more fun playing dustbowl than I've ever had playing 2fort.

2fort classic, however, for some reason or another, I really enjoy. It's not designed that much differently...but it feels bigger, more open..

Not only can I run classic maps smoothly, but I just like the look of them better. They tend to be darker, less happy atmosphere...

Well classic rocks, avanti, rock, hell even warpath

For pubs ofc, e.g. avanti has so many chokepoints it would be terrible in tf2 comp play

One engie, two snipers, sure.  I can handle that once in a blue moon.

It's the 32 man Stupidifests with 4 spies (3 of which must be standing around trying to headshot people from the battlements with Ambys), 4 snipers (3 with Huntsmen and Razorbacks) and 4 engies (3 in the sewers with their little bunker while nobody's watching the damn intel) on a side that just depress the hell out of me.

Dustbowl is better. 2Fort is just frustration.