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Spy - How to tweak?

#  Aug 22, 2008 at 11:56 AM
Join Date:
Dec 19, 2007
Post Count:
172
 
Hyudra 81311
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While I admit the spy is perfectly playable, I doubt many would disagree it needs a little tweak.  As Explodesed (sp?) said in another topic, the game has changed from it's original conception, and the spy needs to change with it.

What I was thinking was...
  • The spy isn't immediately revealed when he brushes up against a foe.
This is a troublesome one.  When the cloaked spy brushes up against a foe, his cloak flickers, revealing him.  Often, it's hard to tell you were revealed and react accordingly, which makes the spy learning curve considerably higher.  More troubling, when an opponent lags, that opponent may cause a spy to flicker, while the spy's own display shows him to have successfully evaded the enemy.  The lack of flicker would allow the spy to slip into backstab range without being held back by a very minor feature.

Common sense recommends a spy to take alternate routes to the back line of battle, but unfortunately, these routes are often narrow with many sharp corners, and there's little a spy can do to evade enemy movement in such cramped confines (except retreat the way they came).  Removing the flicker on a bumped spy would mean spies could take such routes with more confidence, and would require enemies to be more sensitive to when their movement is obstructed, or openly fire into areas with suspected spies to make them flicker that way instead.  Such a fix would require more intelligent play from enemies while taking away a sometimes arbitrary handicap in the spy.

  • Disguises made more efficient.
Of the disguises, only a handful are truly usable.  These flaws are increased bit by bit with each loadout release.  This fix would involve giving spies disguised as medics a random ubercharge %, cause spies to display with loadouts and would avoid giving spies the same name as the player looking at him.  Disguises are unreliable at best, they don't need to be handicapped further.
#  Aug 22, 2008 at 11:59 AM
Join Date:
Nov 23, 2007
Post Count:
441
 
keenoperson 80602
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Specialty: Scout
Steam ID: krazy_kapital_K
 
The idea that I like most is your cloak bar doesn't lower when you are not moving.
#  Aug 22, 2008 at 12:22 PM
Join Date:
Mar 22, 2008
Post Count:
690
 
Specialty: Medic
Steam ID: im2cool4uroflolz
 
I'd like for the flicker, to actually BE a flicker- a sudden outline of red will tip you off, but you won't tell EXACTLY where the Spy is going.

Either that, or when flickering, the cloak doesn't drain.
#  Aug 22, 2008 at 12:38 PM
Join Date:
Nov 30, 2007
Post Count:
3286
 
GManNickG 80805
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Specialty: Spy
Steam ID: gman_nick
Clan: {TF2F} Community
 
I'd like the flicker to reflect it's change on the view model
#  Aug 22, 2008 at 12:52 PM
Join Date:
Jun 02, 2008
Post Count:
316
 
Numenor 85325
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Specialty: Engineer
Steam ID: Numenor
 
The spy should explose upon contact with anyone. That would encourage you to stop you walking into people.

On a different note, maybe the shimmer should be like the pyro fire effect, a translucent shimmer around the end of your screen. Anything too obtrusive and bumping into people will further reduce your chances of escaping.

Disguises, I really don't know what to think anymore. Improve them and people will pick them out in a week or so. Keep them and people will have to learn cloak management and that cloak > disguise.
#  Aug 24, 2008 at 4:25 PM
Join Date:
Jun 19, 2008
Post Count:
96
 
Phoenix747 85788
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Specialty: Spy
Steam ID: Stabby McStabStab
GamerTag: AsistedHomicide
Clan: [HB]
 
The most annoying and the thing that is most up to chance is random enemy movement resulting in your discovery and inevitable death.

I can't tell you how rediculously frustrating it is to make it almost all the way behind enemy lines with the little cloak you have only to be bumped into by an Engineer, who had been standing RIGHT behind his senty the entire time suddenly go to get more metal and discover you. He did nothing skillful, or anything at all to discover you, but rather did it by complete accident. The cloak flicker is so distinct that there's no way even a noob would miss it.

And don't even get me started on disguises...they are so bad it's not even funny. Any experienced player will immediately spy check and call out anyone with half health. And then we have primary weapons and running speed, not to mention sniper zoom, and suddenly disguises are limited to a few classes that won't get you killed instantly.
#  Aug 24, 2008 at 4:32 PM
Join Date:
Jun 24, 2008
Post Count:
53
 
Platypig 86007
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Specialty: Spy
Steam ID: Platypig
 
What I really hate is when you barely brush against someone, so that neither person's movement is impaired, but then you apparently flicker, and die.  And of course it's hard as hell to notice whether you've flickered or not on your little character model, when you're trying hard to evade 5 people who decided to come out of nowherer and swerve around.
#  Aug 24, 2008 at 4:36 PM
Join Date:
Jan 03, 2008
Post Count:
936
 
Teh Jzzb 81812
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Specialty: Medic
Steam ID: BOOSH Teh Jzzb
GamerTag: Jzzb
Clan: [BOOSH]
 
When you brush up against someone your class picture next to your hp shows it.

Also, if you disguise as a class you have a loadout weapon for and have the weapon equipped for that class, it'll show that weapon.
#  Aug 24, 2008 at 6:50 PM
Join Date:
Dec 19, 2007
Post Count:
172
 
Hyudra 81311
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The other thing that bugs the heck out of me is the sapper.  It's just not terribly effective.  Against newbies you can sap-spam until the building in question detonates, but much of the time, you're having to get into contact with a building (which may have enemies surrounding it), sap it and kill the engineer (or vice versa).  An engineer has almost 10 seconds to deal with you and whack his sentry, should you sap it.  I appreciate that the engineer can't be too easy to counter, but on the other hand, ineffective sapping is just frustrating.

Right now, sappers only work reliably if you coordinate with an ally.  It would be nice if the sapper also had a secondary effect to reward successful placement.  Nothing OP, but something like...
  • The sapper requires metal to remove, putting engineers in a tough spot if they want to remove multiple sappers and fix all of the damage.
  • The sapper swiftly drains sentry & dispenser reserves in addition to causing damage.  Thus, sapping lower level sentries would stall an engineer's ability to upgrade them (IIRC, wrenching will fix damage & replentish ammo first, then upgrade after that's done) and even a removed sapper would have minor benefits as far as slowing enemy progress.
  • Sapped buildings cause damage to spy and enemy alike as they explode.
#  Aug 24, 2008 at 7:07 PM
Join Date:
Jun 01, 2008
Post Count:
403
 
runtime 85294
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Specialty: Soldier
Steam ID: xruntime
Clan: X-Killers
 
I think spies should be able to display the secondary weapons as well - maybe even as far as to be able to fire them.
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Team Fortress 2


2 Guys 1 Kill: {TF2F} FlyingPenguin - (102 kill assists)
Captures Blocked: Nimbli Bimbli - (26 captures blocked)
Dominator: {TF2F} Bitch Nasty - (25 dominations)
Flags Captured: Corporal Clegg - (11 flags captured)
Flags Defended: MechaEdd - (12 flags defended)
Physician Assisted Homicide: {TF2F}SME®BUI©K - (271 medic kill assists)
Points Captured: {TF2F}SME®BUI©K - (30 points captured)
Revenger: Count_Flakula - (10 revenges)
Spy Power: Chro - (19 objects killed as spy)
Ubercharger: {TF2F}SME®BUI©K - (89 ubercharges)
Axe Man: {TF2F} Ninja Dude - (18 kills with fireaxe)
Axtinguished: {TF2F} BOOSH Rizzilio - (81 kills with axtinguisher)
Batter Up!: soup! - (16 kills with bat)
Biggest Prick: Sam - ClutchKill.com - (8 kills with syringegun)
Blood Sucker: {TF2F}SME®BUI©K - (30 kills with blutsauger)
Broke Backburner: {TF2F} FlyingPenguin - (223 kills with backburner)
Can You Dig It?: {TF2F}.TüRb!NE. - (3 kills with shovel)
Doctor's Certificate: Maero - (16 kills with bonesaw)
Drunken Brawler: [???] Deviruchi - (4 kills with bottle)
Epic Defender: {TF2F} Spy - (9 kills with wrench)
Fire Spitter: {TF2F}blistering - (100 kills with flamethrower)
Flare Gunner: {TF2F} FlyingPenguin - (12 kills with flare gun)
Grenade Spammer: GeneralSheep - (47 kills with pipe)
Grey Matter: STar - (168 snipings as sniper)
Hadouken Master: Xandier - (1 kills with pyro taunt)
Hot Potato: {TF2F} BOOSH Rizzilio - (4 kills with rocket deflection)
I <3 Sasha: {TF2F} Bitch Nasty - (181 kills with minigun)
Knife Maniac: {TF2F} Dartagnan - (109 knifings)
Last Resort: [Ba-El] BoC - (26 kills with smg)
Manslayer: [FRGT] Klare - (10 kills with machete)
Master Fister: Maero - (3 kills with fists)
Peashooter Marksman: Corporal Clegg - (48 kills with scout pistol)
Pickle Squad Award: [NH]Pitt - (18 pickles man handled)
Rocket Scientist: [TF2F]Lancer - (217 kills with rocket)
Scatter Shot: Corporal Clegg - (147 kills with scattergun)
Sentrygun Master: Numenor - (142 kills with sentrygun)
Spam Blocker: {TF2F} BOOSH Rizzilio - (1 kills with pipe deflection)
Spy Checker: {TF2F} Fanlaen - (5 kills with pistol)
Sticky Explosion: {TF2F}Album - (105 kills with pipe remote)
Ubersawer: Psycholord - (27 kills with ubersaw)
Stats Refreshed 6/24/2008 5:00:03 AM CST
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