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The more and more i play what used to be my favorite map the more I realize how often it just ends in stalemate. Honestly is it just me or does everyone realize this, that more than ANY other map this one in particuar always ends in stalemate. However that might also be connected with most of the 2fort servers having rules such as first to 50 captures and something such as 300 minutes. Now, i think a little extra time is fine, and such, but even on strictly by-the-norm rules, it often times is not determined by who captures all of the intell, but more who has the best scouts to capture the intell as many times as they can before an engy or two keeps it from happening, ever again...EVER. The only other time i normally see people that capture intell on either side is from spy's. So does anyone else notice this, and if so is there ways other than spy, and early scout rushes to beat the other team? Could these matches have contest such as cp matches do. Please, share, and converse 
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You have an entire level thats small choke points, with the intel deep inside a base with a very foward respawn. What the hell do you expect? I've modded 2fort, and if i could get it to compile right i'd have a bad ass map because i fix the flaws behind it.
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true true, but there has to Some way of breaking through everything. I mean hell, even total huge bum rushes and full out attacks are ussually killed out. I think the problem might be its symetry, each side of the map gives heavy advantage to whoever is currently defending ( red building = red defending ) so maybe if both were a bit different that might help...Also, if you really fixed all the major problems, you might have just created my favorite map ever...now just to play it...if you can get it to work =P
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Its CTF, the advantage is always the defending side. While you may break through the defense once, you still have to get past them again when they spawn. Without spawn camping its a bitch.
No its not symmetry at all... its map design. If they designed it like the 2fort from weapons factory it would be x10 better.
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Huh, interesting i think i may need to get into map design, hell valve makes it so easy to do I'm surprised i haven't whipped up a concoction or two of my own, well your map sound very very cool, thanks for the info, and if i can help with your's ( which i severely doubt considering my poor skills  ) than let me know.
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Tf2, and its score system, wasnt really made for CTF.
When the map time is up, the winning team is the team with the most ROUNDS wins, you win a round by getting to the amount of caps set by the server. This works fine when nobody cares how long it stays on the current map for.
However, most server admins, either want it to stay on the current map all day, or change maps around every half an hour.
Because of how random ctf games can be, they can range from 2 caps in half an hour to 20, its hard to set a max round limit untill map changes, forcing them to use a 30 minute map limit. If, at the end of the time limit, one team has not reached the cap limit. It stalemates, even if the score is
0-8 with a cap limit of nine.
If valve put in that at time limit, most caps wins the round, and in turn. The match, it would almost put a stop to stalemates apart from when teams are even.
Hope that made sence, it did in my head. I run a server and fitting 2fort and turbine into the rotation was a bitch without it stalemating out everytime or have very staggered and short rounds.
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helped me understand, thanks 
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Lately on the pubs game of Fastlanes and badlands or badwater basin will be a complete roll until the last point and then they hit a stalemate. But know I've leanered to whip out the ubercharge and win ' \/ ' ; )
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wait what? how do you stalemate on badwater basin, aint it a pl map?
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For me, 2Fort was my pre-school. I learnt my way around TF2 on a random 2Fort server, trying out all the different classes, learning all the basics. It was a simple map, and I grew to like it.
Now I find the whole map a joke under any conditions, except from full respawn timer, 6vs6 player format. Instant respawn and 12vs12 games are a joke- as Chro said, the flag is buried deep in the base, and if you penetrate the primary courtyard defences, if there's an engineer in the basement, by the time you've got the intel the enemies you killed will have respawned to stop your advance. Even with good communication, it's a toughie. If the intel is stuck in the spiral, you've lost it. If it's reached the courtyard, your team is reduced to spy cloak refreshing it. Not a good CTF map in other words.
Mach4 is a better CTF map, with easily accessible intel requiring a forward defence rather than a sentry farm to protect your intel. Sentries are good against spy/ scout rushes, but they are very vulnerable to attack and much less effective than 2Fort sentry farms.
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