Tips for getting past the frontlines?

I played as spy for about an hour today, and managed to get about 30 points and 45 deaths. Of those deaths, about 10 were insta-gib deaths from rocket spam, and another 15 were from getting nailed while stealthing to the front lines and then the subsequent dogpile. 5-ish were from running into someone while stealthing through the frontlines, and the rest were a combination of sentries I didn't see before backstabbing and other deaths after dropping disguise.

I'm working on the ability to fake-out any would-be pursuers with stealthing and changing directions, and I'm not interested (thanks anyway) in hearing about how My Instincts Will Hone With Experience. While that may be true, I'd like to know some tips for bypassing the frontlines. Alternate routes are good, though some advice on chokepoints (ex.: defense stage one of goldrush*) would also be nice. Any other solutions - general or specific - are of course also great.

(I like goldrush, badwater, dustbowl, and turbine, so extra points for tips related to these maps. )

Thanks,
Scurve


* I know I can hop onto that concrete pipe and then to the platform, but this is very difficult to do, and often ends in me getting gibbed by some BLU who came around the corner and watched me do it.

I wouldn't bother with spy on dustbowl/goldrush, they're both horrible spymaps because of the riddicolous spam and chokepoints.

Avoid your team at all costs. If you run cloaked with teammates at chokepoints, or in fact anywhere, you will get hit/ killed by enemy fire directed at them. When approaching a chokepoint, cloak. See a teammate nearby, wait for them. If not, go ahead. Even better, ask them to pause to let you out.

Don't force- wait. An impatient spy is a dead spy.

Re: Jowy's comment- BLU spy on Dust and Gold is indeed bad idea. RED is horribly cramped together, and approaching the final points, you'll have insane difficulty getting past the insanely spammy chokepoints. RED spy is much easier though, since BLU is much more spread out and more players will be walking alone.

Freaking router ate my post. Boils down to:
- Hm. I actually find RED spy's options to be much more limited on goldrush stage one than BLU spy's.
- Speaking of patience, what are some tips for knowing when to go around a corner or something when pushing past the frontlines?
- How about some tips for avoiding groups of unsuspicious enemies running directly towards you while you're stealthed?
- Any neat badwater tricks/hotspots? (other than the platform jump between the 2nd and 3rd points? (see LT. CYNDI LAUPER)

-I guess you're right, but damn, I've had some good runs with spy on that level. Goldrush stage 1 benefits a BLU spy due to the more spread out nature of RED defence.
-If there are no allies near the corner, cloak and go wide around it, to help you see incoming enemies sooner. If there are allies, watch them- if the minigun's rattling and explosions are everywhere, it's a safe bet to say it's unwise to push through.
-Backpedal and adjust your course as needed. Don't try to run straight round, despite the temptation- backing up gives you another second to judge their movements.
-Gonna have to say i do't know many badwater tricks, mostly because I play engineer on it so often- learn the map, be creative

OK, I know exactly where you are coming from. The truth is, on crowded and spammy parts of attack-defend maps, you will die...a lot. The only thing you can change is how much damage you do with that time and reducing the number of times your efforts are wasted.

First off: Save your cloak for when you really need it. If you're spotted, whip out your revolver and start shooting while retreating. One tactic, however risky, is if you start hitting your opponent with the revolver consistently (two out of 3 or 4 shots hit, either by luck or skill) you can pursue your enemy, making him retreat because he believes that he is dealing with a dangerous Spy. It's the equivalent of bluffing, and sometimes works.
If you run out of cloak in the middle of the enemy base, you are outright screwed. Period. Save it for when you need it.

Go for targets that won't draw a lot of attention to you. Backstabbing snipers may feel so easy that it is beneath you, but in reality it helps your team immensely.

If a chokepoint is too spammy, simply don't go. You might make it, but most times you will not. Wait until you see a lull in the spam, or better yet, go another route entirely.

Learn to dodge incoming fire. This will come with time, but you can get some good practice in. A lot of it will be random, but after gaining a LOT of experience with running straight into a hellstorm (try 24/7 Badwater or Goldrush servers for practice), you can predict where enemies are going to fire/move based on their subtle movements and past actions.

I agree with most of this thread so far.  Blue spy on dustbowl is usually terribly ineffective due to spam and the cramped/campy nature of red's defense.  Defending maps 1 and 2 of dustbowl can work out fairly easily for spy, though.  You can have fun defending goldrush maps 1 and 2, but 3 tends to be a major pain in the neck due to the last chokepoint (although the starting area isn't so bad for spy).  Badwater is one of the most enjoyable spy maps for me, but it still has its share of chokepoints at times.

Here are some very broad suggestions that I can give for avoiding spam while in cloak:

If your team rounds a corner and you are with them, do not cloak and try to push your way out too early.  When your team pushes around a corner or out into the open, you should expect the other team to immediately start firing in that direction, so try to go through when you don't think the other team would have any reason to spam.
Although it is a pain to wait if you let your team enter an area first, it's often a good idea because you'll get a better feel for what to expect and you'll likely save some cloak.  By looking at your team's reactions to rounding a corner ahead of you, you will often know whether or not you'll need to enter cloaked (use same team disguise here).

Of course, turn all of your corners wide if you suspect enemies might be behind it.  You'll have less of those unfortunate moments when you run face-first into a pyro around a blind corner.  If you're trying to run away or catch up to someone though, there's no reason to take corners wide; it's only for precaution.

For hiding spots, it's important to realize that they're completely situational.  A certain spot that might have been a good hiding spot a few seconds ago might no longer be one because of the specifics of what's happening (you see someone coming or a team is checking out an area because they caught a glimpse of you), or because of a very general change in where the conflict is happening on the map (like when blue gains point C on Badwater, their spawn point changes; this is like playing on a completely new map compared to before point C).

Edit: I had promised another commentary due to getting so many requests.  It's going to be pretty basic, but it should be a good 12 minutes or so of a Badwater round.  It'll cover some pretty reliable and reusable waiting/hiding spots.

Well I have some ideas that might help you out, much of my strategy is based on what I have read from some of GMan's posts, and much of his advice has helped me out a lot.

First I would suggest searching for some guides and videos for special jumps around some of the common maps, I know there are a couple jumping topics in these forums and a few good videos on YouTube. Knowing these extra routes can really open up your options when faced with some dangerous situations and many jump spots I use religiously because of how useful they are.

My other suggestion would be to try jumping around on objects in the environment to get past the enemy in an unconventional path. I for example was on Dustbowl Stage 3 on the offense and the Red's were holding us back pretty well at the alley just before the last turn to the capture point, I managed to get past them by jumping off the Sniper platform onto the tire stack below and then jumped over my opponents near the empty staircase. Sometimes you have to think about your path in three dimensions and sometimes you have to pretend that the nice dirt path is really hot magma!

The last thing I do is try to get as far to the front as I can without using my cloak by being more direct and using my Revolver, I usually try to stick with teammates for a short time and then I break off and disappear when I'm closer to the objective so that I can put my cloak to use getting deep into the enemy base instead of just using it and losing it early. I actually have moderate success with being more direct and using my Revolver, it is an accurate and powerful weapon and many enemies don't expect you to use it against them, and it has a devastating critical shot.

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Maybe in pubs, but it's still not really that hard. In small games, (clan servers, scrims, etc.) it's a shitload easier.

And I would never say don't bother with spy. Some maps are easier than others, but they are all possible to go good in.

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The ground is lava!

What a fun game.