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Give the Soldier 6 rockets per clip, which do 50 for splash damage, 75 damage for direct hits. Make
it so he can't fire point blank without also rocket jumping. Leave
juggling other people the way it is. Rocket crits do 2x damage (150 direct hit, and
100 for splash). And have rocket damage not fall off over distance.
Yeah, it would mean upsetting half the population, I get it. But, come on, the Soldier is so undeniably imbalanced right now. And his very existence contradicts the the theme of the game. When you have the Jack-of-all trades also be the backbone of every team, who's strength is fighting, and weakness is dying, how is that class based?
They are the easiest class to pick up, and the most rewarding class to
master. The best compliment to a Soldier is another Soldier, and
another Soldier. Sprinkle a Medic or two, and a sticky tossing Demoman,
and you've got the perfect team.
For example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USs0abj0e3g
This guy is supposedly a member of one of the worlds top clans. How can you watch that and even think about being any of the distinctly roled classes?
So, just say what you think. I realize this topic causes groans and eye rolling for most people, at first glance. If you think this is a bad idea, chances are that you have an answer to the thread title's question.
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I actually agree with everything you said except the rocket jumping/point blank bit. I don't think you'll ever find a soldier who will agree with you on that...think of it as our 'panic' button. We take a lot of damage firing point blank, and probably die 1/4 or even 1/3 of the time we do it.
I'll gladly take 6 in the clip though...talk about being truly overpowered then.
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I suggested the rocket jumping at point blank bit, as opposed to the other popular suggestion of, just making the soldier take more damage, so the soldier could still do it, but he'd have to sacrifice the good position of being right in their face. Plus, he still has the option of switching to his shotgun/shovel  I thought of it as a nice alternative to having to switch weapons in situations like that. You really think having 6 per clip is more powerful, even with the damage drop, and not having your crit rockets insta kill?!
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Giving the Soldier six rockets isnt going to help at all... The damage needs to be in direct relationship with how long the rocket has been in the air, or make it work like a RGL (rifle grenade launcher) does in real life... eg: option1: rocket does more damage the longer it is in flight, but does a lower starting damage, and soldier takes more damage from his own rockets. option2: there is a two second timer... if the rocket hits something within two seconds after it is launched, the rocket is a "dud" and does no damage.
This makes the soldier a more medium distance fighter, and thus the way to beat the soldier is to close the gap. This gives the soldier a distinct role - medium range fighter - and leaves long distance for the sniper, short distance for pyros and heavies.
Although, I would be happy if the splash damage was decreased or damage lowered, but I think thats avoiding the problem. Give the soldiers their ammo reserves back, and do one of the options.
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Quote: Originally Posted by Hellblazer
option1: rocket does more damage the longer it is in flight, but does a lower starting damage, and soldier takes more damage from his own rockets. option2: there is a two second timer... if the rocket hits something within two seconds after it is launched, the rocket is a "dud" and does no damage.
These are excellent options. Particularly option 1, since it would look strange for a rocket to explode without causing damage. If you meant that it doesn't even explode, how would the soldier rocket-jump? Anyway, good ideas there.
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Quote: Originally Posted by Hellblazer
option1: rocket does more damage the longer it is in flight, but does a lower starting damage, and soldier takes more damage from his own rockets. option2: there is a two second timer... if the rocket hits something within two seconds after it is launched, the rocket is a "dud" and does no damage.
This makes the soldier a more medium distance fighter, and thus the way to beat the soldier is to close the gap. This gives the soldier a distinct role - medium range fighter - and leaves long distance for the sniper, short distance for pyros and heavies.
Option 1: is a good idea, and I like this option best out of the 2, but wouldn't that make snipers' lives a lot harder? And I think that this would encourage a lot of rocket spamming. There is a lot of it now, yes, and I think that's the point for damage falling off over distance, rather than increasing. So the problem is in the short/medium range. Option 2: Ugh, as soon as I heard that, the image of the HL2 rpg popped in my head. This would not only change strategy, but it would completely change the feel of the soldier. The steam forums would be so filled with hate, that Valve would HAVE to change it back in fear of losing all their customers. It seems nice from a non-soldier point of view, but I just don't think that it would be any fun at all to play as the Soldier class. When I originally posted my 6 rockets with lower damage idea, I thought everyone would think it would be a too extreme move in the right direction. But, you guys think it would still be over powered? Could you elaborate a bit, maybe? What I'm trying to do, is spreading out his damage output over a longer period of time, in smaller chunks, which give you more time to escape/react.
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Reptile should not be used as a point to prove that soldiers are imbalanced. Reptile is imba, not the class. Soldiers are really fine. They can kill medics, spys, engis, and spies easily. So can everyone else. Good players are able to give soldiers runs for their money. Also, good demos can make airshots just like that.
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The valve developers chose the number of rockets in a clip very carefully, and tested many different combinations of ammo ammounts. I do not think it would be balanced if the soldier had 6 rockets.
Cant we all just live with what we have?
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Quote: Originally Posted by Ameister Reptile should not be used as a point to prove that soldiers are imbalanced. Reptile is imba, not the class. Soldiers are really fine. They can kill medics, spys, engis, and spies easily. So can everyone else. Good players are able to give soldiers runs for their money. Also, good demos can make airshots just like that.
My point, is that the Soldier class is the most rewarding to master, and there is no point in bothering with the others, because a master soldier/demoman will always win against a master engineer or pyro. Reptile mastered the class, and now any one who crosses his path when he has 2 or more rockets loaded, doesn't stand a chance. The game is too circumstantial, and when you can't control what circumstances will arise, it's no different than chance. Wasn't it valve who said players don't like to have the control of their characters taken away from them? If so, why did they include juggling? I also think that demomen are imbalanced, purely for the insta-kill factor of both of their main weapons. Not as imbalanced as soldiers are, imo.
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Quote: Originally Posted by Gubbinz Quote:
Wasn't it valve who said players don't like to have the control of their characters taken away from them? If so, why did they include juggling?
Yep, they definitely said that. Quote: Originally Posted by Gubbinz When you have the Jack-of-all trades also be the backbone of every team, who's strength is fighting, and weakness is dying, how is that class based?
That's how I've always summed up the soldier too, a Jack-of-all trades who's specialty is more or less combat. A specialty of "overall combat" in a shooter? Ludicrous.... yet nothing a nerf or a buff could help at this point I feel.
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