re-evaluating gpit strategy

so it seems i've played Gravelpit a lot in recent PUGs, and four out of five times the result is the same

1.  Red harrasses at A for a bit, but gives it up early
2. everyone waits at B, with a sentry on the ramp covering B long
3. Blu caps A, runs through C, kills the teleport entrance and mops up any red stragglers and procedes to B.
4. Blu ubers a demo to B, takes down the sentry, Red bails. 
5. skirmishing at B until eventually Blu takes it (generally whichever team keeps a demo/soldier on the roof wins out.)
6. Red falls back, defends C.  medic, soldier, sometimes pyro camp the spire, demo camps one of the entrances, everyone else tries to flank and skirmish.
7. Blu takes potshots at red while building uber (maybe sending in a spy to cause trouble, usually to little avail.)
8. Blu ubers in, launches a demo and/or solly to the point, while the medic and a heavy or soldier run to the top.
9.  fighting on the spire.  if Red wins, return to step 7 and repeat.  if blu wins, victory.

and usually once per round in this map there will be some wild card play (my favorite being when the red engy set up a teleport exit in the tunnels to the A spawn, after which the medic and heavy kritzed the spawn at the start of the round, killing almost the entire Blu team), but most of the time the rounds still follow the same formula.  i'd like to brainstorm and maybe come up with something else that would work. 

maybe one of the simplest things to do is to not run an engineer on Red.  gravelpit is open enough that sentries are really worthless to protect much of anything, and the spawn is too remote to exposed to provide any protection to the teleporter entrance.  or at least i feel we should abandon the sentry on the B ramp.  once A is capped, that sentry never lasts long.  sure, it doesn't technically have any blind spots, but people are so used to it that it's just too predictable and too easy to take down.  besides, the points cap slowly enough that ninjacapping by scouts or spies shouldn't be too much of a problem

I always felt that the point of the sentry at B was not to defend the CP, but to defend the medic (and sniper if RED are running one). There's not much health around, so the dispenser+sentry combo are great to keep the medic alive when scouts would usually gun them down in the open area.

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That and it typically forces BLU to use the majority of an uber to take it down, allowing for the red team to fall back while the sentry is being assaulted.  Then RED is able to uber back once BLU's uber is over with, with the hopes of retaking the point and the area, and giving the engy time to set back up.  Repeat.

Basically, it creates an uber advantage.

I've always felt that in organized games this is where it ends up. It's a system made because the map is a system form. It's an attack/defend map which comes around to whoever can DM best. It leaves a little room for strategy, and more for efficiency. In this type of map I find that medics play a larger role due to a one way attack. If blue loses their uber they have a chance to charge it up without worry for losing the map. This is a problem for blue because time is against them instead of another team. In push CP maps they can kill the other medic or make them pop in order to get back on top. In this map there's no way to KILL the time. You HAVE to be quick and effective.

Basically, the strategy that has been set is THE most efficient for both sides because of the constant testing it's been through. If you want to try some other strategies feel free, but I can tell you that as it is now it's overall the most effective given the circumstances.

 Why is there normally little to no defense for A? Because there is to much room to move around to avoid traps and sentries.  Why is there lots of defense on B? because it can be covered easily by 1-2 sentries.

The sentry at B IS there to protect the medic. Most teams can destroy the sentry without having to waste the uber... sometimes it helps force the uber.. but not often enough.

I'm talking sixes here though, you must keep your medic safe from scouts/the level 3 dispenser in the normal dispenser spot is a godsend for the medic.

Snipers/spies will play important swing roles, especially if the blue sniper can get some nice picks while the fighting is going down around B.

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As I demo, I can easily sidestep from the tunnel and take the sentry down with out an uber. And if the blue medic is somehow forced to pop his uber before reaching B or dies, then the entire cycle completly changes

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Which is why, as the Engineer defending B, I always have at the very least a sniper to cover the tunnel.  I can usually rely on any class capable of jumping into the tunnel to take you out, and I'm very good at keeping my team updated.

Also, pistol spam to remove stickies.

so 1 sniper and 1 engie? If its a 6vs6 match you would be at an major disavantage if both goes down

I'm not talking just sixes.  I'm talking all spugs on gpit.  For sixes, there's usually the aforementioned Soldier and Medic to call upon.